Our final episode of the season is all about the Power Women. Joined by the Founderland Management Team, the network is led by Stephanie von Behr, Deborah Choi and Alina Bassi. "Boss Women" and "Girl Boss" are just some the words you can hear about leading women in the workplace. In this episode we take the time to discuss what this means for us and the practicalities of being a women in business. How can we disrupt our industries? What lessons can we learn from Founderland? How can women in leadership positions continue pioneering and advocating for each other?
Our final episode is all about the Power Women. Joined by the Founderland Management Team, the network is led by Stephanie von Behr, Deborah Choi and Alina Bassi. "Boss Women" and "Girl Boss" are just some the words you can hear about leading women in the workplace. In this episode we take the time to discuss what this means for us and the practicalities of being a women in business. As a #BossWoman, myself I’ve found it super important to find others alike who understand the importance of self-care, drive, negotiation, entrepreneurship and empowerment. Running a network alongside a business can be quite tough. How can we disrupt our industries? What lessons can we learn from Founderland? How can women in leadership positions continue pioneering and advocating for each other?
Today, we are discussing the complexities of running a network, creating a hustle and work streams that works for you and how the Founderland Co-Founders have found sustaining their businesses in the height of a pandemic and an upcoming economic crisis.
Stephanie von Behr is Managing Director and Co-Founder at Founderland. She is focused on operations, accelerator programs, comms, and the digital platform. She has been working with startups for over a decade, as a 3x founder, mentor, and brand consultant. She is a natural connector of people, a catalyst of ideas, and a champion of women. Born in New York, Stephanie earned a BA from NYU and a MFA from San Francisco Art Institute. She is an intersectional feminist, committed to creating a more equitable future for the next generation.
Deborah Choi is a Managing Director at Founderland, focused on community growth and ecosystem partnerships. Prior to Founderland, Deborah founded four ventures, raised VC funding, and joined the BusinessWeek ‘Top 25 under 25’ with her first startup and most recently Business Insider's top 25 Zukunftsmacherinnen (Futuremaker) list for 2022.
Deborah has 15+ years of experience growing consumer brands and has advised 100+ VC-backed startups on international growth. Born in Nigeria and raised in the US, Deborah earned a BA from the University of Chicago and resides in Berlin.
Alina Bassi is a Chemical Engineer turned Impact Entrepreneur, with a passion for sustainability. After 7 years in the biofuels and waste recycling space, she co-founded Kleiderly, a textile recycling startup that has developed an innovative method to recycle textiles into a durable plastic alternative. She is a venture scout and the co-founder of a non-profit that supports women of colour to raise investment, Founderland. She was on the Forbes 30 under 30 list in 2020, and has been featured in Vogue, Wired, and Germany’s Shark Tank.
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[00:00:00] Girls are socialized from a really young age in school, from pop culture, family, and told to be nice, polite, and quiet. Step one is to disrupt these notions within ourselves, because we have to get out of these patterns that have been so ingrained into our minds and into our life. Welcome
[00:00:26] to A is for Monique. Boss women, the boss, are just some of the words used to describe women leading and creating their businesses and membership networks to empower different communities. As hashtag bosh women, myself, I've found it super important to find others alike who understand the importance of self care, drive, negotiation, entrepreneurship, and empowerment.
[00:00:48] Running a network alongside a business can be tough. So today we are discussing the complexities of wanting a network, creating a hustle, and a work stream that works for you and how the founder land co-founders have found. Sustaining our businesses in the height of a pandemic and an upcoming economic crisis.
[00:01:05] So an introduction to the founder, land co-founders. So Stephanie Ber is a managing director and co-founder at Founder Land. She's focused on operations accelerating programs. comms, and the digital platform. She has been working with startups for over a decade as a three time founder, mentor, and brand consultant.
[00:01:26] She is a natural connector of people, a catalyst of ideas and a champion of women. Born in New York, Stephanie earned a BA from NYU and an MFA from San Francisco Art Institute. She's an intersectional feminist committed to creating a more equitable future for the next generation. Debra is a Managing Director at Founderland, focused on community growth and ecosystem partnerships.
[00:01:47] Prior to Founderland, Debra founded four ventures, raised VC funding, and joined the Business Week Top 25 Under 25 with her first startup, and most recently, Business Insider's Top 25 Future Maker List for 2022. Debra has 15 plus years of experience growing consumer brands and has advised 100 plus VC backed startups on international growth born in Nigeria and raised in the US.
[00:02:11] Deborah earned a BA from University of Chicago and resides in Berlin. Alina Bassi is a chemical engineer turned impact entrepreneur with a passion for sustainability. After seven years in the biofuels and waste recycling space, she co founded Clyderly, a textile recycling startup that developed an innovative method to recycle textiles into a durable plastic alternative.
[00:02:33] She's a venture scout and the co founder of a non profit that supports women of color to raise investment Founderland. She was on the Forbes 30 under 2020 and has been featured in Vogue, Wired and Germany's Shark Tank. So welcome all of you. Thanks for having us. Yay. Thank you. So first and foremost I've been a major fan of the network since becoming a member.
[00:02:54] I think this was Some time last year, 2021 or 22, I only see love your creativity, work ethic and determination as a three. How did Founderland start and how have you collectively come about? Leisha, I might take this one and thank you again for having us on the podcast. Um, you know, honestly, the start of Founderland was very organic and in many ways was coming from a point of time where the three of us were all kind of fed up with the status quo of entrepreneurship here in Europe.
[00:03:26] So I first met Alina through a program we were both in for female founders, um, one in which we were, you know, one of three women of color in the cohort. So, you know, although our ventures and backgrounds were super different, there was this natural and really unique connection around our founder journeys as migrants, as solo founders at the time, and also as women of color.
[00:03:52] So, you know, the initial spark for us was actually about finding and joining a pre existing community for women of color. One that offered. You know, everything that we were looking for community opportunities and access that was designed with with us in mind. Um, but this was late 2019 and really such a community on a European wide scale.
[00:04:17] Unfortunately did not exist. So, you know, going into 2020 in no way was it our plan to do all the things that we've now done, like grow a community to nearly 400 plus strong women of color founders. On board hundreds of experts to provide support expertise, you know, launch an accelerator and all the other things that will will, of course, discuss today.
[00:04:42] Um, but I think that that's how most movements really begin, right? 12 steps than three. Um, You know, to talk also about how Stephanie came into the picture, uh, is talking about a real pivotal and game changing moment for us. Um, you know, really where we found, um, our founder constellation coming together, and that was also in 2020.
[00:05:07] Um, you know, I'll... Beak a little bit for Stephanie, but I do feel that she was also feeling frustrated at the right time. Uh, she was then at the helm of a new fund for, um, Berlin based founders. And she was, you know, facing various hurdles when it came to getting, you know, founders with diverse backgrounds to committee and, and, and funded.
[00:05:28] Um, and Steph initially joined us as an advisor and, you know, together, we. Put our heads together, um, and came up with an MVP or a minimal viable product, a very simple website that had, you know, two main calls to action. One for investors that were looking to, um, talk with and potentially invest in diverse founders and diverse founders who were actively 2020.
[00:06:00] We sifted through a lot of entries and in four, you know, really fast weeks, we made these 60 warm introductions happen across, um, both sides. And, you know, a lot has happened since then, but that really was the first execution, um, of what we now have as Founderland and the resulting feedback helped us see that we were You know, really onto something, something much bigger than we could even imagine back then.
[00:06:28] Amazing. Amazing. Even just the thought of 60 introduction is to me quite insane. So hats off to all of you and just hearing all about, yeah, just how you've come about and how each one of you has kind of come from this point of frustration at the beginning or the necessary points of your careers is really, really important.
[00:06:49] So what has been the funniest experience to date? That is a hard one, and I'll try to answer that one as well. Um, because honestly, we are always laughing. Like, not one week goes by without some belly laughter. Um, I'm so proud of the team that we've built. We're a team that works hard, we aim high. Um, but we really also find the humor in the day to day, and that's that's not easy.
[00:07:17] That's not a small feat, especially when you're talking about a team that's also very diverse on all fronts, whether you're talking about, you know, generation, race, ethnicity, gender, et cetera, and we're remote. So, you know, I think we're able to maintain this kind of this nice balance through a few things that we.
[00:07:36] Really have focused on as a management team is co founding team. Um, one is, you know, we from very early made an investment in our time into, um, group coaching, um, on on a leadership level. Um, we try our best to be very transparent. Um, have clear ownership across all projects. Um, all scopes. Um, and also make the time and space for praise.
[00:08:05] Thank you. And I think that this is, you know, actually opened up a lot of, uh, that opportunity for us to also be a team that laughs together. Wait, I have one funny story. Maybe we include this if that's okay. Um, it's, it's pretty funny and it's a little bit off the cuff, but at our summer picnic, we wanted to have a microphone.
[00:08:28] So everyone who was at the picnic and it's, you know, we didn't know how noisy it would be on a really warm summer day in Berlin. Um, and, um, so I was like, Hey, you know, like I have a mic. And I sent a photo to the team, um, and it was a karaoke microphone. And I remember Debra being like, Steph, this is not professional.
[00:08:53] We're having a photographer coming. We do not want to have a karaoke children's microphone. But anyway, in the end, we made it work. Um, not with that microphone, but with another microphone. And these are the kinds of things that keep us laughing. These. Silly, funny things that we have to weave in from our family life and our personal life into our daily life and our professional life.
[00:09:17] Do you still have the microphone? My, I have two kids, so now I have two of them. I have one blue and one white. At least it's like a, um, a memoir or like a souvenir of that time. Also, a few of you have businesses on the side. How have you managed this and what advice can you give to others who may, may run a network and also another business?
[00:09:39] Um, I'll take this one, Alicia. Um, but first of all, I just want to say thank you as well for having us. And it's so nice to like recollect everything we've done so far. Deborah, I completely forgot about the MVP where we had this like super basic website and like, Oh, sign up here and two calls to action.
[00:09:56] And it's so crazy to think how far we've come in such a short space of time. Um, but yeah, um, it isn't, it really isn't easy to run, um, a startup alongside. Um a community network like foundland, but I think um for me, um, i'm super into like So, I mean, that's, you can kind of see that thread with, uh, Cloudly will focus around sustainability and then, uh, Founderland, um, but because I feel super passionate about both things, wanting to see change in terms of an equitable startup ecosystem and wanting to see change in terms of, uh, recycling and sustainability, I think it's not.
[00:10:36] Um, although it's difficult you just feel because I feel so passionate about everything that I do It just pushes me to get things done um When things are tough, I just remind myself of the bigger picture and the cause that i'm trying to fight for every day So, um, that definitely helps me. Um, but yeah, it doesn't come easy.
[00:10:54] I have to be Extremely organized. I have such a strict calendar and Such detailed to do lists and tools to like kind of keep me going Um, but I also think that the supportive network and having such awesome co founders like steph and deborah Just really makes it easy. Uh, well not easy easier Um, I also just feel so grateful because um when I started my career as an engineer, I honestly really hated uh, the beginning of my career.
[00:11:26] I disliked every day and I was always, um, clock watching and I feel so grateful to be in a place where I don't feel like what I'm doing is work because I enjoy it so much. Um, so that makes it much easier when you enjoy something that you do. Um, then you, you find a way. Yes. Um, just in terms of like having autonomy now that you've all found a land.
[00:11:50] Um, how does it feel when you put in like new systems or you put in new things that kind of maybe you haven't like sort of before, let's say, like trying to manage how you do remote working and how you kind of invent new prototypes or new systems that could really work for your team or even yourselves.
[00:12:09] How has that been for you to kind of see it kind of play out and then also have there been any like successes and points of like challenges and failures? We were just like, Oh, we need to like rethink that. All over again. Yeah. So we're really iterative and we, we are constantly optimizing processes. So like, you know, doing retrospectives, thinking through if something's working or not.
[00:12:32] And, um, we're really, we're, we're more like a nonprofit. Dressed as a startup, as Debra would say, so like we're, we're really into new tools. We love to use Miro. We love Notion. We have like a very elaborate wiki for our, um, for our team so that we can really work, uh, as everyone's remotely and keep track of all of our meetings and make sure that we're meeting our goals and that everything is tracked and that we can, we have visibility into everyone's workflows so that we can support each other and not be roadblocks.
[00:13:04] Hi everyone, my name is CJ and I am the founder of a fintech called flank digital I founded flank because I want to help you stay friends while you borrow and lend borrowing and lending money In relationships, it's actually really difficult and it shouldn't need to be. We lend money to our friends and family essentially to support each other and that's what we help people do.
[00:13:33] My experience of Founderland was amazing. I think it really challenged me. It showed me actually that there were some personal barriers to raising money and some preconceived notions that I was harboring about my own skills and abilities. And it was really, really cool to learn all of this, um, in a group of amazing female.
[00:14:05] There's a quote by Marianne Williamson who mentions that nothing liberates your greatness like the desire to help, the desire to serve. And I feel like that embodies a lot of the support that I personally have felt from Founderland. There has also been the launch of Compass, which started in 2022 and then also finished.
[00:14:23] And it was basically a five week investor readiness program and it had 14 incredible founders. How is it like creating this and what have been the biggest learning? I'm happy to take this one. So, Compass was a huge passion project for me personally and I think for all of us. Um, across the three of us, we've done over 10 accelerator programs ourselves.
[00:14:48] So we wanted to make sure that we were building something that didn't exist. And as for me, I had curated bits and bobs of programming in the past, but to be able to really create this program of our dreams from the beginning was just. So much fun. Sorry, that's my puppy in the background. Um, and so just to give you an idea of how we started, we started out with this massive brainstorming session and thinking through all the accelerators that we had participating in and kind of what worked, what didn't work, what could be better.
[00:15:21] What didn't even exist that we wanted to add and we took it from there. And to be honest, we had a lot of stuff in our first iteration and our first ideas. And then we leaned into experts and found out that actually less is more, which is our mantra as a team as well. And, you know, we wanted to make something that was laser focused.
[00:15:41] So in the end, we knew that we wanted there to be a lot of interaction, role playing and real negotiation training. And we thought, you know, it's one thing to read a book or listen to a podcast, but to actually pitch to investors. Is another thing. Um, and we wanted to also create an environment where you could pitch to your peers, be accountable to your peers, and also in front of investors who are allies.
[00:16:07] And I have to say, we were so impressed by the graduation day. Um, we asked founders to pitch their startup in three minutes, and they were just fire, like one after the other. Our mouths were fire. We just couldn't believe how much they'd improved throughout the process of the accelerator, and we were so proud of all 14 founders and the biggest learning for us, um, was probably that we want to push this interactivity even further.
[00:16:45] So we're going to actually cut the fat, get rid of any keynotes or lectures and try to do our best to have an in person demo day and. Build in more time for the cohort to get to know each other. And ideally, if we had a budget, we would love to plan a retreat for the cohort with in person programming.
[00:17:02] That's also on the horizon as one of our goals, dreams for, for this year. And. Um, I think another learning for us was the schedule. So all of the sessions were from 5 to 8 PM twice a week. And this was a really tough thing for parents to manage. So we want to think through how we can make the schedule more parent friendly, um, and inclusive in that way.
[00:17:29] And the last thing that we're trying to do that I want to put out into the universe because I really want it to be manifested is that we're hoping to get micro grants for the participants for this cohort in 2023. So let's see. Kudos again, like I just keep hearing loads of great things. So be so, so good.
[00:17:49] micro grants could be given to them as well. Another question I have is to negotiate or not to negotiate. So equity barely exists for women. I always use this quote as it's my favorite from Caroline Perez noted in her book, Invisible Women, data bias in a world designed for men. There is no such thing as a woman who doesn't work.
[00:18:06] There is only a woman who isn't paid for her work. So how do you negotiate? I can take this one. So, first of all, I love that book too, and I was so shocked by so many things that I learned in it, like, that bathrooms, for example, are just not designed with women in mind at all. Like there's the exact same amount of stalls for men and women, which is crazy.
[00:18:27] That was one of the most surprising things in the book. But anyways, I digress. I'm going to answer your question. So, um, I think about this a lot, that, you know, women, um, Are socialized or girls are socialized from a really young age in school from pop culture family and told to be nice, polite and quiet.
[00:18:48] Um, so I think step one is to disrupt these notions within ourselves. And it's something that really doesn't happen overnight, it's work because we have to get out of these patterns that have been so ingrained into our minds and into, into our life. And sometimes I even feel uncomfortable when I'm speaking loudly about my achievements.
[00:19:11] I hear that voice being like, stay humble, be humble. And, um, I noticed the feeling and I think about where it comes from and then I move forward. With this awareness in mind. So it's kind of like, how do we create an awareness about these structures and these, these, um, signifiers that come from the external world that actually aren't true.
[00:19:35] And I think that as a leader and as a mentor, I try to really impart this to younger women. that we need to stop apologizing for what we want. Um, and I think that negotiating is all about thinking about what the person on the other side of the table wants to get out of the deal. So it's about taking their pain away, anticipating what they're going to think.
[00:19:57] How can I make this person feel safe and still get what I want? So for example, if you're going to negotiate better terms on your term sheet, You want to do your research on what other companies have received. Do you want to talk to your peers, talk to other founders who've worked with that, invest with that VC, um, be able to explain using facts and data, why you need whatever it is that you're asking for.
[00:20:20] And like I said before, you want to anticipate any pushback. Um, and I always say that it's really good to role play and practice with your co founders or someone you trust. And also someone who, you know, is not going to just, you know, wear rose colored glasses and just be like, Oh, you did great. Like you want someone who's going to say, Um, that that that piece didn't land.
[00:20:43] Well, you need to say this in a different way. And I guess that's kind of what compass was all about. Also, when we were preparing the founders for negotiation, it was all about like practice makes perfect certain, um, certain intonations in our voices make a sound stronger than if we have a question mark at the end.
[00:21:04] Um, that's that makes it sound weaker, right? It's like, are you ready today? to commit to a hundred thousand for this round. Yes or no? Um, so I think that we all need to negotiate for different things in our life and it's about understanding how we ask for what we need boldly. Definitely. There's also a quote from Serena Williams where she mentions that I really hope that I can be helpful in that journey because I do believe that women deserve the same pay.
[00:21:33] It's just as hard as men do. I've been working playing tennis since I was three years old and to be paid less just because of my sex is, doesn't seem fair. So I 100 percent agree with a lot of what you've said and I think there's something to be said about how we as women really take the lead in certain areas, especially if we do have the experiences, and then we do also kind of not belittle ourselves.
[00:22:00] I think it's really, really easy to belittle ourselves when it comes to pay and to talk about financial wellness or just financial literacy. I think also in different spaces around the world, it does definitely depend on, you know, different independences that we have, and also looking at these kind of structures in place that we We sometimes cave into have any of you got anything else that you want to mention about anything that's happening in the future Anything that's happening at the moment before we go into it game time I'd like to mention that the report will be out already when this podcast is published But I think that it's really important to note that we are producing the first intersectional Report on women of color founders in Europe.
[00:22:43] Um, we got received a grant last year and what we worked on in the last year will be coming to fruition and it will be a digital report. Um, and we're super proud of it. And, um, we want as many people to see it as possible. So you can go to report, uh, backslash. Founderland. org and see it for yourself. Hi there.
[00:23:06] My name is Dr. Linnea Brayboy. I am the co founder and chief medical officer of OvumCare. OvumCare is a hybrid IVF clinic on a mission to leverage AI tools to improve IVF patient success. patient accessibility and also the patient experience. We want to enable every single individual who wants to become a parent that ability to become a parent regardless of their socioeconomic status, regardless of their marital status, regardless of their location.
[00:23:35] And tech and artificial intelligence can help us to do that. I applied to the Founderland Compass Program because as a physician, as a scientist, I didn't think that I had all the skills that I needed to be able to pitch to investors. And what I actually experienced at the founder land compass program was the community that I formed with other founders like myself, but also really the springboard and feedback and honing of my skills when it came to pitching.
[00:24:03] And I actually started to use those skills in real time in real life and pitch to investors at several events. And one of those investors took interest in ovum. Uh, did an initial meeting with my co founder and CEO. And then we have now done a deep dive. And I think that really just speaks to the confidence that I built when I was, uh, participating in Compass.
[00:24:26] And also the fact that my skills did get better. And I think that, uh, what. What should happen is that those who are migrants who are really interested in entrepreneurship may be somewhat intimidated by not speaking the language or knowing the local customs here in Germany in terms of founding a UGE, uh, in terms of, uh, how do you negotiate term sheets?
[00:24:47] All of those things are very foreign to many people, but yet they have the entrepreneurial spirit. So I think programs like Compass at Founderland really encourages and supports individuals. to pursue that entrepreneurial path, which ultimately enriches the society that people migrate to. And I hope that Compass, Founderland, and other programs like this will continue to have not only funding and support, but also support, uh, from the local government because ultimately Berlin is a special place, uh, because I had access to Compass, because I had access to Founderland, but we need to keep it a special place by continuing to provide, uh, the resources so that programs like this can even exist and even evolve.
[00:25:31] To include more and more individuals who would be interested in, um, growing the economy and providing support for the economy here. Okay, so we're gonna go into game time. So, I've done this once before, and it was a success. So I'm hoping that it's gonna chime again on this round. So, basically what we do is, I'm gonna be singing three songs.
[00:25:57] You have to guess the title, the year, and who it's by. So are you ready? Yes. If you want to be my lover, you got to get with my friends. Make it last forever. Yes. Date? 1996?
[00:26:16] Yes. And title? If you want to be my lover? Okay, I'll give you, I'll give you that. It was wannabe. Okay, so
[00:26:28] the next one, um, Heartbreak, you got the best of me. Mariah Carey. Yes. Um, mm mm, 2000. No. A little bit less, a little bit less. Almost. I'll give you, I'll give it to you, because it was... Okay. And then title? Wow. Heartbreaker. Yes. Okay. And the last one, Can you pay my bills? Yes.
[00:27:05] 99. Yep. Damn, this is so fun. I want to do this game more often. And the title? Pay My Bills. I think I just heard it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well done, well done, well done. You did this in like one minute? Literally, in one minute and 28 seconds. So kudos, honestly. Well done, well done, well done. Thank you so much for all the information and all the details that you provided in terms of your own work, in terms of all the things that you've done in the past.
[00:27:34] all your achievements today. It's been incredible. And if you have any last kind of talking points of anyone listening to this, what would you say to them and any last minute notes that you want to kind of say to everyone? I would say to anyone thinking about You know, anyone struggling and feeling like they're not being seen by their boss or that they are being gaslit at work and that they're not, you know, reaching the point in their career that they want to be in to start thinking and dreaming about.
[00:28:08] Doing something different and start working on it and put your energy into things that light you up and, um, find people who see you and who want you to succeed and who believe in you because it's not worth it to spend your time working for jerks. That's my, that's my two cents. Love it. Absolutely love it.
[00:28:30] Alina, Debra? I will wrap up by just reminding women of color who are listening to this amazing podcast, um, and thinking about your journey, join us. Join Founderland. Founderland is your land. It's a space where you are centered and you are welcome. And we can't wait to meet you. Thank you so much, Nadia.
[00:28:54] It's been a pleasure. And. Just as a member myself of Founderland, I've really, I feel like I've blossomed quite a lot and I've met some really incredible founders. I think there's something to be said about having, definitely having friends and having family, but also having Business minded women who are also entrepreneurial in that field or in other fields who you can kind of just talk to about certain things that you might not be able to talk to other people about.
[00:29:18] So thank you so much for creating this space for us. Thank you so much for inviting us on to your show. Yes, thank you. Thanks for having us. Hi, I'm Katie Lowe, co founder and CEO of Domi Labs. We're a prop tech startup with a mission to simplify the housing rental experience using a new digital identity technology.
[00:29:40] I'm also a graduate of the 2023 Founderland Compass Program, a program designed to empower women founders with hard skills for negotiating and pitching, particularly when bias is at play. I can honestly say that the Compass Program has been one of the most impactful experiences of my founder journey.
[00:29:58] Beyond curating a brilliant lineup of speakers that worked with us through practical exercises, building a personal brand, crafting an impactful pitch, and my favorite, learning how to close a deal, what I found most valuable was the program encouraged you to do important internal work surrounded by an amazing supportive circle of fellow women founders.
[00:30:18] The best feeling was stepping on the Demo Day stage with more confidence than I've ever had before. If you have the opportunity, I wholeheartedly recommend applying to be part of the COMPASS program. All the topics in this season touch back to sown seeds of exchange. If anything in this episode spoke to you at all, I always love hearing thoughts and expressions that can be birthed from single, collective stories.
[00:30:45] As I'm on this journey to learn, heal and design from this space, please note that this is also a personal invitation and not everything may be relative to you. Carving your own space is so essential, whatever that may be. Remember to follow or subscribe to this podcast and you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at a for meke and join my quarterly newsletter at www do anisha meke.co.
[00:31:09] Be sure to hit up it's seven, A Gang on Tied On Apple Music, the other Fab fab Coon Collective, whose music has been playing throughout this episode. All right, take care.