We discuss all things Bodies, Health and our In-Between Worlds Part 2. The journey we undertake as individuals is linked in how we carve spaces collectively threading the needle to weave our own stories and our land. I’m excited to introduce Jan-Ming Lee and Araceli Camargo. Jan-Ming Lee is a uk artist of Chinese descent working with dance, movement and sound. Most recently she has been facilitating, devising as well as performing for projects that relate to building collective spaces for us to tell our stories in all our complexities. Araceli Camargo is a cognitive neuroscientist and science communicator. She was the lab director at The Centric Lab (which is in partnership with UCL) to explore how people interact and are impacted by the physical world around them. Araceli's science communication focuses on the Future of Work, Neurodiversity, and Women's Health.
We discuss all things Bodies, Health and our In-Between Worlds Part 2. The journey we undertake as individuals is linked in how we carve spaces collectively threading the needle to weave our own stories and our land.
Jan-Ming Lee is a uk artist of Chinese descent working with dance, movement and sound. Most recently she has been facilitating, devising as well as performing for projects that relate to building collective spaces for us to tell our stories in all our complexities. Araceli Camargo is a cognitive neuroscientist and science communicator. She was the lab director at The Centric Lab (which is in partnership with UCL) to explore how people interact and are impacted by the physical world around them. Araceli's science communication focuses on the Future of Work, Neurodiversity, and Women's Health.
A passage in the Huangdi Neijing (ancient book of Chinese medicine, as well as a major book of Daoist theory and lifestyle) reads: ‘When anger abounds and does not end, then it will harm the mind.’ Just as in the case of tools or machines, there are ways in which we can use our bodies that overtax or harm them, and thus cause injury and illness (including mental illness), according to ancient Chinese scholars. This is an astute insight into the nature of illness.
― Psyche Magazine’s article, Chinese philosophy has long known that mental health is communal.
[00:00:00] The traditions inform the processes and the methods of how we do our work versus inspiring the work.
Today we have two people, two amazing, incredible women, Jan Ming Lee and Elli Camargo. Jan Ming Lee is a UK artist of Chinese descent working with dance, movement and sound. We also have Elli Camargo, who is a cognitive neuroscientist and science communicator. So thank you so much for joining us. The first question I have for both of you is that is to do with the connections we have to our bodies and our health in this rat race of life.
Um, and then also the deep impacts that this can have on sleep work lit and our life, and also how we create, um, our bodies are almost so tied to [00:01:00] labor that without us taking the necessary steps of detach at times we can be so exhausted. So in what ways have you created spaces for yourself to detox or detach as a priority for your body's health?
I do have a lot of different practices that come from Turtle Island traditions, however. It is important, I think, first that we address the systemic factors that affect health before going into that, because for many of us, it is not possible to have a full sense of detox, and that is not to say that self-care isn't important, that we shouldn't create these rituals because they are incredibly important.
They, you know, they can be a difference between sustaining ourselves. In a way that we're not getting panic attacks or in a way that we are improving our sleep. However, without addressing things like clean air, how can we talk about [00:02:00] practices like meditation that require you to take a very, very deep breath and, and bring in oxygen and nourishing air into your body without looking at the fact that.
Most of us, if not all of us, because there is no place on earth that doesn't have the contamination of air. We cannot get that, that nourishment in our systems. Um, we can't talk about connecting and looking, um, at, sorry, connecting with nature and having that be a primordial part of prayer, which it is for myself.
I also am not looking at who is completely removed from nature, who does who, who are the people that do not have the confidence to be in relationship with nature? Because they have been displaced, because they have been violently removed from nature. So, um, so yes, I wanted to address that first because sometimes.
When we, if we, sorry. If we [00:03:00] don't do that, we erase the fact that for many of us, this is incredibly difficult, which is what is very much adding to the sense of unrest, is that we are not actually able to access in fullness. Um, The elements that are there to keep us healed, such as going into nature, taking those deep breaths where you're bringing in the microbiome into, into your system, into your lung, into your gut, and you're nourishing yourself, um, that way where you are drinking water that is full of minerals and nutrients that are gonna also.
Nourish and hydrate your body, um, or going for a long walk, run, et cetera, um, to connect that mind, body, and space, um, which is, those are the healing practices that I, that I look into. But I, like I said, always being mindful that we're not getting to do it at full tension, that we are [00:04:00] being robbed of, of that full connection.
I think also, um, one of the biggest things is us being able to understand the inequities in place. Um, and as you're speaking, just understanding like, you know, what are the possibilities that certain communities or certain people could have if they had that access. Um, but also recognizing those barriers, the barriers to access and how actually that has a lot to do with.
All types of equities, not just one. I think that's another thing is that like a lot of our, a lot of our systemic issues are very much tied together. And then I think also, especially in the ways in which we live, especially in, um, urban and dense areas, those have really big impacts. So one other question as well is like, how do you feel like the pandemic has.
This on many scales, especially when it comes to our own lived experiences. Um, I guess in terms of answering your question, [00:05:00] Alicia, about how do we disrupt these spaces and I think I. Because dance has been such a, a big thing for me since I was like three, I started to get into dancing. So it's always been like a really, I always think of dance as a radical thing, even though it's not in a way because it's like, totally not.
But then in a way is, and I guess I only have that to, you know, sometimes when I'm in spaces that it, it dances such a. Weird thing to do and in and in other ways if I think about just how we are in our bodies and, um, of course like I can also see that, um, you know, I have the privilege of being able to have had dance, um, different dance trainings and be able to come towards it.
Um, but it is also something that [00:06:00] happens. When we are stirred or when we want to change, you know, um, say no to something or something already happens in our bodies. So for me it's like what, uh, what's already happening that is, is disrupting space is, um, I don't know if this is making sense, but I guess maybe if we are in conversation, I can, I can keep unraveling.
What I do think is that it made us. More acutely aware of mind, body, space, right? Many of us understood very acutely if we were in a, in too small of a space or we didn't have enough space. We also became aware of. The bigger sense of space i e are we connecting to any forms of, of big, what I call big nature, so forests, beaches, um, [00:07:00] um, lakes, et cetera.
Um, and beginning to ask questions. Who has access to them, who does not? Um, and then again, then being very aware again of, of our body in place, in terms of community. I think there's, it sparked a lot of conversations about. Our relationships with community because we were, you know, especially at the very beginning when we were told that we had to stay in one place, um, with very few of our contacts, um, all of that, I think in many of us sparked conversations and or new forms of thinking of, like I said, ourselves in the context of.
Connection, social connection, and also connection to the wider space. Um, in terms of how it's going to continue to affect us. I mean, it is going to be a monumental change to our society. I think [00:08:00] this is something that is going to be a 10 to 20 year phenomena because you're talking about children that.
Or born and are being raised with a completely sense sense of self than all of us on the call, right? That you have, you enter the world depe. I mean, I guess it also depends on your parenting, but you are entering the world very fearful that you have to distance yourself from people. You have to distance yourself from, from, from certain.
Relatives even, um, the, you know, there's been multiple studies on babies not being deprived of facial recognition, uh, mechanisms because of so many of us wearing masks. And, you know, what, what, what is it like to enter the world? And you can't see people's faces plus, That energy that would've been in the world of very fearful and very [00:09:00] trepidatious, what was it like to be born in that?
So that's gonna be an entire generation that's probably going to really actually go more than 20 years because it's gonna go into people's full life cycle. But equally, it has changed us very much on a biological manner. Like we're, again, it is not very well talked about, but the thing that makes Covid.
So dangerous to our bodies is that it changes the way that our gut bacteria functions and many other diseases do that, you know, whether it's diabetes or or heart disease. There are changes in your gut bacteria, which is what causes the deregulation. But I. Covid can stay in the body for months on end.
The protein of Covid itself can stay in the body for months on end, changing the way that our microbiota is working in our, in our system, which in turn causes an overall inflammation in our body, which means that. Our body becomes less [00:10:00] able to heal, less able to deal with new stressors. And so you're adding this cataclysmic change into a world that already was very difficult to remove, to remove stressors, right?
That where a body on a daily basis is having to filter the toxins from air pollutions, the toxins in our water, the toxins in our food, and now we're asking, you're going to have to do all of this work. But with an overall sense of inflammation in the body until, of course you're, you're fully recovered from covid.
So, and then, then of course that is going to change again, how we're aging. That is going to change. Um, especially for those of us that are in our forties, I think about how that is going to change the way my body is going to enter things like menopause, and then later on how it's going to, how it's going to age because of, of these change, these structural changes to our body.
That's really super interesting. And I also wanted to add, I mean, I was just [00:11:00] saying how much sort of, um, detail and knowledge that you have aan I'm really appreciating that and I'm so wanted to bring, uh, from where I am of, of, um, working in dance and somatics, um, this sort of overlap of how, like you talked about the.
And how that might overlap into the way that we relate to each other, to ourselves. Um, and that sense of being able to still speak about the processes in our body, not as separate from us, but somehow as. A part of us, but you know, my language is English language is really difficult to, sometimes we need to use to articulate how, what I'm trying to [00:12:00] say, but because the language itself can shape it.
But what I'm trying to say is that there's also the ways that we fully relate to it that I think also in, in the air. And do you mean also, um, Jan, in terms of. That fear that you talked about. Um, and I guess the airiness of it and the fact that it has so much to play in how we have contact with each other and how we build those connections with each other.
Because I think one of the things that I learned, um, at the beginning of when I first met you was, um, yeah, just learning about body work and boundary work. The body, which was very interesting to me because I've never gone through that, through that kind of understanding. So maybe if you're able to explain more about the work you do with boundaries, and then also the ways in which I guess you've seen.
The distance of contact or the distance of connections within collective bodies, if that makes sense. So we've, [00:13:00] um, I, uh, we've been, um, doing a bit of dancing together and we've been doing a bit of somatic body work, so I can talk about how I came to those. I think that I actually had a lot of sa sadness in me.
Uh, quite a few wanted. To understand it more. And I knew that it had to be through the body as well as through other cognitive ways for me at least to understand it. Um, so I started to have sessions, but also I started to train in a somatic body work with pan approach, um, which is, uh, currently in Berlin.
I've also been researching a lot into different, um, modalities of somatic therapy in relation to trauma. Um, as well as [00:14:00] as an artist, I use, um, movement and sound and dance as a way to, um, allow people and audiences I.
Layers rather than pushing down certain layers in order to, to perform that their, their work is more in, in integrity with themselves. 'cause often we can, we need to work in order to make money. There are structures that, um, can, we feel that we have to. Uh, we feel, we feel that we have to be a certain way in order to be successful, and those things can really push down.
Um, our, our stories, our inner stories, especially people whose stories are, um, [00:15:00] marginalized in, um, media.
In terms of, yeah. Can you just, Alicia, can you just repeat the Yeah, sure. So it's basically about the boundary work and just understanding of contact, and you mentioned about fear and I'm just wondering how fear, how you've been able to. We collect fear in the last few years of the pandemic, especially at the height of it.
Um, because we went through very intense times within the past two years, a lot of extractivism, um, beyond measure. And I think, um, there's so many different waves of how that's been added. Whether, whether that's to do with understanding how maybe disasters have happened in our homelands and we've not been able to be in.
Those spaces or even the disasters, um, other disasters that have happened, or for instance, um, you know, being isolated and not being able to contact or be in contact with your [00:16:00] family. Um, you know, the height of the disas, the height of a traumatic event, or, um, the trauma of, of basically seeing, um, you know, George Floyd on so many different.
Social networks be, be killed online. That has had major effects on how we perceive our fear or perceive each other and perceive that contact. So I'm wondering to myself like how have you personally seen that in your own work? And then also how have you been able to create that body work and that boundary work since.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that all of these different traumatic events in the last few years have really, in, in their own ways have really got me to really question, uh, question a lot of things as, [00:17:00] oh, this is a really big question, but maybe I can talk about it really personally first, and.
I think personally I've, being of, um, Chinese descent, I've, I have felt in the last few years since the pandemic, um, more microaggressions, um, and harassment in public, um, in terms of the fear of the fear of the virus in relation to my appearance, um, which really, um, gave me this perspective. An insight into insight.
I mean, something that obviously has been happening all through my life. I've, I've been having microaggressions all through my life. Um, but it brought this new level of like how everyone has traumas, intergenerational traumas, which are [00:18:00] sort of really deep inside our bodies. And they, when, when they're not sort of, um, Met or confronted in ourselves, in, in each person.
Then when there is a crisis, when we're under pressure, they come up to the surface and, and, and they are, they take over people. You know, the fear of others. The fear of, uh, the, yeah, this kind of, so what. It's really got me to see in my, in my work as well as personally is how to think about, how to think about how, looking at how everyone's, um, I could say ancestral trauma, like as in the, the different kinds of things in there in there.
Uh, [00:19:00] intergenerational past, like what, what things are are, are wanting to be healed and wanting to be tended to in order to collectively move forward, because otherwise they're in times of crisis. These things, uh, will, yeah, they're, they're there. They're, they haven't gone away. I've personally been doing a lot of work in trying to.
Have conversations which bring empathy across different, um, people with different views. Um, so that that actually can happen rather than I think in terms of like, there is also work that happens, which is trying to. Which is more public. And I think sometimes, especially on social media, it's, it's really not, to me, it's not really the right medium to have those difficult conversations because it, [00:20:00] uh, it creates, uh, division and reactiveness rather than an openness to try and understand what's happening in, in everyone's bodies.
I'm also just wondering, and I'm just thinking to myself like what within your own ancestral tradition inspires you to, to continue to create or continue to work or continue to, um, envision new worlds for yourself? I don't know necessarily that the traditions inform the processes and the methods of how we do our work.
Versus inspiring the work. So by that I mean that we have created a set of principles and a baseline of ethics that we al not a baseline, I would say a lens of ethics that we always [00:21:00] analyze through and go, is this the right? Way to approach this. Are we approaching it at the right depth? What depth is the right depth?
So for example, when we are writing a report, the one that we're currently working on is on gendered health. And one of the conversations that we had to have is to baseline where as a team, are we all, are we all in, in our comprehension and in our relationship to gender? So as a person practicing indigeneity, it would feel, I would say inorganic.
This not, will not be the reality for all people's practicing indigeneity, but it does feel that if you are in this practice, that you wouldn't be tive to. The gender conversation because gender was established to generate capital. [00:22:00] Um, right. So male female needs to be there as a categorization to create either the heirs of capital or the labor of capital.
So I can't subscribe to that. And we went around the table going, okay, so, so where is everybody at? So we know where we are. I. About what deaths we are writing this report in, so we are not erasing and or trampling over the existence of our trans coworkers. Um, so that is how I, what I mean, sorry, by how we.
Do the work in terms of why, personally I do the work is because everything that we talk about in terms of health inequities is something that as a person of and descendant of Turtle Island, has affected me and my ancestors since, since the time of colonialism. So that [00:23:00] understanding why. You have the stat, native Americans are more likely to have diabetes and heart problems and stroke, which is very evident in my family.
But then the question was, is it really a question of genetics? Is, is that the understanding? And so it comes to light that it's not because our bodies are always in relationship to our environments. Even something like genetics. Genetics, it is sold as a very stagnant. And very precise moment in time that it comes at our birth.
But it's not, it actually is a very active, constantly changing, um, mechanism that is also in relationship with our environments. So understanding that on a scientific level helps then inform how I'm looking at the trauma of people from. Or there are people that are racialized as Native [00:24:00] American and we don't look at just those health stats as, oh well, they're just half stance.
That's just what happens to Native American peoples rather than actually it's the racialization of Native American peoples. And the experience that that racialization creates, that is the culprit of the poor health outcomes. So I would say that that is how I use my background, um, to. Fuel the motivation for the work that we do.
I guess for me, um, well, this thing that I have to do when I can't, um, sleep when I, when I'm dancing in the, in the hours, the morning, um, also often I am very close to, um, I guess, yeah, questions, fears or [00:25:00] longings and I, and often that relates to somehow a direction towards my, my ancestors. And I also wanna say that, that, that people talk about this, I.
In different ways. So I think that, I just wanna just say that it might, for some people, be imagination or emotional expression. It, yeah. So, or it might be, um, connected to nature or animals, like something that, for me it's very, very particularly about the feeling of. Myself going, uh, beyond my lifetime. So that relates to people that I [00:26:00] imagine are in my, in my, um, family in the past.
Um, and so those, uh, if you, you could say for the forces that are really have been recently, Been really present for me that have been helping me to, to connect to, I would say, like if I talk about land, if I talk about literally what I'm standing or lying on or whatever, I can feel the ground and, but also the air and the, the density and the textures of what I feel in the space around me.
Um, How far my, my imagination can really go in terms of connecting to what's alive around me. So, um, yeah, it, it, I [00:27:00] often find that talking about this can be tricky because it, everyone has really different cosmologies and different ways of feeling how they are in, in time. But I, I guess I could, without sounding, I.
Without sounding kind of. Yeah. But I do feel my ancestors is very present in these moments of the early hours of the morning. And they, there, there are things that I, I, insights that I get, let's say, dunno how much to go into because also it's so personal. But um, I guess in sense of like, In daily life. I bring it into kind of conversations that I have with others of this, of similar or different, um, cultures and just trying to hear how, how there might be parallels, but also how there might be different perspectives that can kind of, uh, [00:28:00] bring more insight is also a way of for me to, to connect in that way.
Super, super interesting. And also, yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, especially when it's personal. I think one of the things that I've definitely read up on is about darris, um, meditations, which can offer insight into, um, how the body. Well, the divide between the body and the world and how that can be overcome.
So, um, they evoke like very much like intimate and even erotic or connections between the inner landscape or the body, and then the outer landscape of mountains and rivers. Um, and this is sometimes noted as a term. Pervation. Um, and I think this also denotes, um, the fundamental connective process by which the cosmos flood into the body and then the body into the cosmos.
So it's almost like this very much ecosystem, which is quite beautiful. Um, and there was an interview in 2018. [00:29:00] Uh, by a Dutch cultural psychologist called Beha, um, mosquito who said that many cultures don't think about their emotions as something that lives inside of an individual, but more as something between people.
And in those cultures, emotions are what people do together with each other. So when I'm angry, that's something that lives between you and me. And I thought that was really interesting because it comes back to this kind of communal understanding, this collective approach. And so, um, what other things. Or stories or folk laws that you've come across that enable you to act?
And how does this sink into your work? Um, in understanding health and body equity? The English language is a really great language for transaction. So if we understand that, for example, a lot of international law is written in French, um, English is very much the language. I would say it's ubiquitous in terms of [00:30:00] contract writing and finance, and certainly, for example, if we look at a country like Canada and the United States, you have to ask why do they speak English when.
For example, as recent as the, um, tea party, um, there were those, uh, sorry, there were flyers written in German. That was, that was the main language used because a lot of the immigrants there were, were German. And also of course there were, there were colonizers from all sorts of different, and settlers from all sorts of different countries.
So you have to ask the question, why would English be the one that took over instead of German or Irish, or, or, or, or Dutch. And the reason being is that the, that the, that the, um, English had a very well established financial system, a system of all about transactions. So English actually then becomes a very difficult language to use when you're trying to take away dualism [00:31:00] because there is no words for talking about reciprocity or the seamlessness that reciprocity occurs between our bodies and the external world.
Even saying that sentence is technically, as far as our traditions or my traditions, I should say, our traditions are not mine. I don't own them, um, is not necessarily as best as you can articulate it. So for example, there was, there was a Maori person that was asked, you know, do you feel a connection to the river?
And he said, it's not that I feel a connection to the rivers, that I am the river. But there again, it's difficult. It's not quite hitting it because you are, I you're using the I am. You are egocentric. You're creating an egocentric point of view that you're making the river a part of you. And it's not that.
It is. It is permeable. It is. It is. [00:32:00] Flowing the connection that we have. I mean, the, the clearest thing that we, there's two things I think that demonstrated. One is the constant, and I mean constant intake of breath, right? That breath is an instant seamless interconnection with. Everything, the cosmos, everything.
And, and I mean by everything, I mean everything, your ancestors, every single being on this planet, every single being that has been on this planet because you're breathing in the particles that have always been and will always be here. And then the other one I think is the gut bacteria that when you are inhaling, you're not just inhaling a or you are inhaling bacteria from.
Everything from the soil, from the trees, from the plants, from the biodiversity around us on a constant basis. It's just constantly [00:33:00] coming in. So you're filling your body, literally, you're filling your body with the environment and you know, and you're coming back out with c O two. That gives another form of nourishing to the external environment.
And you do this without thinking. I mean, that's, I think that find that very interesting that it's not, it's in, in our automatic systems, right? We're not conscious of that unless you're, of course you're going through a meditative practice. It isn't. But for the most part it is. We don't tell our lungs to breathe.
We don't tell our systems to do it. It just happens. Um, again, very seamlessly. But, um, but yeah, so it's a, and that definitely informs the way that centric. Fuse health and healthcare, which is why we go all the way back to the very beginning. I couldn't talk about the healing practices that I go through because it's not an eye.
I go through them in communal, communal with everything around me. So how can I meditate and think about breathing air and not [00:34:00] think about the fact that my non-human beings, such as the trees and siblings are not allowed to produce? Their heir as they should because their beingness has been taken away.
So if their beingness has been taken away, my beingness is also taken away simultaneously, um, without separation. So yeah, that definitely is why we talk about at centric as health being ecological. Ecological is the closest word that we can get to explaining that phenomena of that seamless rapport or I would say actually the seamlessness of being.
'cause that's what we're doing. We are being, that is the, I would say the, the, the name of the phenomena is the it's being and that we're being together. Hmm. That resonates with me in terms of like the way that I struggle with the language and in terms of stories and folklore. I think that, [00:35:00] um, if I think about, if, think about stories and I think about how we.
How in my work I'm trying to empower people to, um, to take hold of their own stories and feel that it in their bodies to be able to open out. Um, at, at the moment I am, um, working on a particular project which is working with Hong Kong diaspora. Um, it's called Hong Kong Future Diaspora, and I'm working with.
Filmmaker called Evenly and, um, performers of Hong Kong, Chinese heritage and working to reimagine their stories, their myths, and um, future, um, mythologies. So in, in that sense, and it's through movement, through [00:36:00] performance, through sound, for me that. One way of, um, relating to wellbeing in, in a more collective way.
The narrative of what you both communicated definitely resonates with me also, even in my language, in terms of. Yoruba, um, dialect, um, Yoruba tribe within Nigeria, it's so transcendent and the restrictions within the English language that kind of are so rigid and quite blunt, um, and quite, yeah, just quite restrictive.
And um, I think that one of the biggest, biggest factors about that is just understanding that there are possibilities. Within the realms that come out of that, there are possibilities that we can create for ourselves. But I guess my last thought is like, where do you see from, from the things that you've mentioned [00:37:00] as well, you've, you've highlighted that you experienced this space of the height of the pandemic, where, you know, your parents became.
So much part of, of this new fear, I guess. Um, and I'm just wondering like how have you, have you been able to now kind of create a space for yourself in which you feel like you are in an embodiment of, of empowerment? Um, are you in a space where you feel like, especially as you're talking about, you know, you've got new collaborations and um, you are kind of like working alongside people within your heritage, do you think there's, there's an amazing kind of like, Transformation.
Transformation that's gonna be coming about. Yeah. Really interesting question. Um, I definitely feel like, [00:38:00] um, like I, I don't know if you feel it too, but I often feel like there's things in the air, like collectively. Um, definitely. Yeah. And I also feel like time, what I've learned I'm learning is. Um, how to relate a bit more spaciously with time and how to, that urgency really is d it is difficult to, to, to have urgency when we are thinking about, um, transformations in a collective way, even though of course we need to, in terms of like, A, a lot of crises that are happening right now, but at the same time, it's almost like, oh, so hard to articulate it.
But we are really small in, in the, in the whole, that sort of in everything. Like we, [00:39:00] we can only, we are not saviors coming into, we're not sort of outside of the thing kind of coming in to save it. So like what a was saying with its, It's also that it's all, it's all meshed in, uh, or in the chi in, in Cantonese, Chinese language, which is my mother tongue.
We, we also don't often have the pronouns, so we might just say, meshed in so that it doesn't really sort of separate. But I would say that. I do feel ire right now. I just wanna dance this instead of saying it because it's hard to articulate it in words. Dancing is your language and I guess how you've been able to, you translate that into dance, which is beautiful.
Because I think body and health equity, especially at the height of the pandemic, has been crazy and it's been such intense time. I was having a conversation with [00:40:00] someone earlier, um, and just talking to them about, you know, just the transitions that we've all had to make. And I think if you, you know, I think we've been affected and impacted in so many different waves.
Um, and I think that just something that I've realized is that we are not yet. Even at the threshold of understanding the intensities of what we've been through because it's been so much over the past two and a half years. And although we are, you know, In a way, um, not in the same height of the pandemic that we were before.
Health is still important and we are in some, some capacities, sometimes gonna be in those dense spaces and those ities where health inequities are beyond words. Um, And our bodies and how we, how we manifest or how we take care of ourselves and how we stretch and how we move and how we connect with each other is so imperative.
Like one [00:41:00] of the biggest things and learnings I learned from you personally was that somatic body work and that dance movement work where I brought some of my friends to as well. Um, and I, and I literally felt like I was so. I just felt really tranquil. I just felt really like, oh my gosh, like I'm learning so much about my body for the first time, and I'm learning so much about the relationships I have and the contacts even on my skin that are just so, like, there's a, a space of isolation and, and there's a space of, um, feeling like.
The importance of touch, but also understanding the boundaries around that as well. Thank you so much. This has been a really good session and thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for being in this space.